Major game studios spend millions of dollars to cheat hardware requirements so they don't have to develop another console. Most graphics nowadays cut corners so that hardware that's 6 years old can keep up with them. That's why there's so much money being spent into it. If they designed it for up to date, or even 2 years old, hardware, the costs to create the graphics would be significantly reduced. Get your facts straight.

Plus, your definition of good graphics, as stated in your first post, said only realism, retro, or stylized graphics are good. One, this game uses stylized graphics, so you clearly don't know anything about that. Two, you can say 8-bit or 16-bit graphics are good, yet something that served as the transition between "realism" and "retro" is bad? Again, this exhibits no knowledge.

Three, Prince of Persia was good because of innovative gameplay and good platforming. I couldn't care less about the graphics. Graphics are only an issue when it interferes with gameplay, i.e. terrible HUDs, over-bloom, bad cameras, etc. etc. Prince of Persia could of literally been a gelatinous blob in a generic, textureless, 3d world, and it's gameplay would not have suffered.

Your knowledge of graphics is limited to the shallowest of views. If you had any education in game development, which you seem to have little or none based on your statements, you would realize how insignificant graphics are in a game.


Also, I find it amusing how you blame me of distorting your view, then go on to commit the same fallacy yourself in the very next sentence. I have never stated "GOOD GAMES NEED TO LOOK LIKE FESTERING SHIT." I HAVE stated that graphics are the least important aspect of a video game.


And the irony is not lost on me.

I personally dislike people who say such things as: "lols i wont try it out the grafix sux XDDD"

And that is probably one of the reasons why Oracle call these people shallow players.

P.S, he was not flaming, he was arguing with your statement. You are dumb, that was flaming.

I don't even know why there was an argument in the first place. Salem has fine graphics.

Which is better? a game with utter shit graphics and good gameplay, or a game with great graphics and good gameplay?

By the way I detest that you think that good graphics = realistic graphics, and that pixel graphics are terrible.

Games like Shank or Prince of Persia 08 or Deathspank or even some classics like Pokemon have gorgeous graphics. Understand that the words "good" and "realistic" are not interchangeable.



Honestly, not sure if troll at this point. You seem to think that good graphics means intensive and realistic. This is the problem with todays gamers, they think retro means bad and realistic means good. A recently made game, perhaps you have heard of it, called Machinarium came out a few years ago. The graphics are not at all intensive - I can run it on a netbook without a graphics card at all. And yet it is one of the most beautiful games ever made. Similarly a recent game called Bastion was released, it is amazing to look at, yet it can run IN A BROWSER. If you still think that graphics is all about the most realistic you can get then I laugh.

I listed the examples of realistic, retro and stylized because it covers 90% of graphics styles. There are some, such as in The Madness Returns or The Path that I would describe as 'surreal', but even so I would say that i would say that is a subgenre of stylized. This game does use stylized graphics, but that doesn't automatically make it good. It is VERY STUPID to say "8-bit graphics are good" because there are THOUSANDS of different stylized of 8-bit. Hell, I would go so far as to say that 8-bit is such a huge genre that it is meaningless to even mention it.

I think you are taking things to the extreme, there would be 0 awe or immersion if you were playing as a blobl in a textureless world. Graphics are a part of gameplay. Do you think people would have been scared in Amnesia if the graphics were all featureless? Do you think Giygas from Earthbound would still be as haunting if it were a smiley face? Graphics are deeply ingrained in to the soul of a game.

I would like you to know that I do have education in games development, and not only that but in the actual creation of game engines. I can write a phong shader or a PCD engine, but do you really need to have education on the subject to look at Salem and say "these graphics are terrible"?

Why the hell are you arguing against an improvement in graphics then? Why can't a game have good gameplay AND good graphics? You looked at me saying I am annoyed by the bad graphics, and instead of being reasonable and saying "yes, graphics is the weak point of this game and needs improvement" you decided to say "NO IT DOESNT NEED GRAPHICS THE GAMEPLAY ARE THE BEST SO SHIT GRAPHICS ARE VERY FITTING YOU ARE AN IDIOT IF YOU LIKE GRAPHICS". You didn't say it in caps, but you did write an entire fucking essay about how bad graphics are the best.

Are you saying these graphics are good? No, you said they are bad. Since you already conceded what I said - that the graphics are bad - why are you still arguing?

Either you are arguing that bad graphics is essential for a good game, or you are just arguing because you can't take Salem taking even a touch of criticism.

You've failed to read anything anybody has said, or at the very least failed to interpret it as it's written, instead further misconstruing this argument to suit your favor. You've accused others of fallacies, then commit the same fallacy yourself tenfold over. Quite frankly, anything I write at this point won't get past either the language barrier, or the intelligence barrier. So I'll keep this within simple rhetoric.


Either you don't understand english, or you're an idiot. In either circumstance, this "argument" is done.

I like how you started the argument with flaming and ended the argument with flaming!

What a classy guy!

Dwarf fortress has ACSII (or slightly more stylish if you download textures)

I'd rather play that then your realistic shooter game.

However, if dwraf fortress had hyper-realistic graphics, it would be the most popular game on earth.

But I don't need graphics in my games (Unless they're fps games, they need to have at least some detail)

I love how you still don't get any of this, and he never flamed. I must say you are pretty dumb, that is flaming.

Hyperrealism is not the same as "good", as I previously said.

Dwarf fortress is a great game, and it is questionable whether graphics could even possibly improve it. Honestly I think it looks good as it is (I play nethack and robot so I can appreciate text based graphics). But it could verywell look quite nice with Heroes of Might and Magic 2 style graphics, or even 8-bit or NES-spec pixel art.

But like I said before, even if you don't /need/ graphics in your games, are you honestly going to sit there and say:
1) 'I do not want the graphics improved because I prefer bad graphics'
2) 'Salem graphics are fine and would not benefit from looking good'
3) 'A game with amazing graphics is equal to or worse than the same game but with shit graphics'
? ? ?

I doubt you would say any of those things honestly, but I suspect Oracle would say them just because he thinks agreeing with me means losing (yes, it seems discussion about a games graphics is a contest to him).

I've said a lot about how horrible Salems graphics are, but let me tell you how it could be. Imagine the graphics of Torchlight or Bastion, a highly stylised painted texture style. In general the textures in Salem are the worst point, they need fixing in almost every aspect - contrast, saturation, form, definition, value. Just look at THIS, there are so many bad points. Look at the texture of the forehead and the different styles used on the clothes, tiles and barrel. Look at the differences in saturation and value between those 3 objects, and again compare the brightness of the background to the character - the character is actually darker! Even the skin tones! What the heck are those tiles even made of? Looks like some kind of glazed clay tiles, but what the heck they are used as city streets? That doesn't make sense! What about that barrel? Some kind of luminescent wood by the looks of things (the lighting is all wrong!). Honestly it looks like a mix of programmer art and stock textures.

http://beta.salemthegame.com/?ref=1bf9875fc56 <------can you please click this?