Ayy lmao, 7th grade 13 yrs right here. I want to study computer science and programming.
I already know how to program but whats the harm of learning more?
I already know how to program but whats the harm of learning more?
Originally Posted by Onsola
Well Mat how high are the chances that everything is perfectly set up so life starts? I dont see any planets with life out there (tho I am sure that there must be life somewhere else) It has to be just too perfect, the place where the earth is, the conditions in which the planet was and stuff. Ofc life will exists everywhere as long as its possible.
search mat on urban dictionary, yes that is the real me
You know, there is something called the Fermi paradox, either we're actually alone, or we are so common that no superior aliens (if there are one) notice us.
fine-tuning is not an argument for design, but rather an argument against design! The idea of an extreme fine-tuning beyond which the target cannot exist is indicative of a precarious natural system, not of intelligent planning.
we should not be surprised or befuddled that the universe is adapted to our needs, since we evolved within the universe and its parameters. Evolution tends towards adaptation of life to its environment. Therefore, we should no more be surprised of how well the universe fits us, than we should be surprised of how well a baked cookie fits its mold.
TLDR: As I said, life would've found its way around the loopholes and evolved in a different way than what it is now. It's not fine tuning. It's adaptation.
you say I am an idiot but you just repeat what I said in other words
then i must be an idiot
lol
there isnt a true objective, reproduction is just a necesity for life to keep going.
How is it not? It's an objective to keep life going, that's the actual objective of living. You never did define 'true objectives', either.
Also logic is not a feeling, at least I dont think so but yeah.
lol oknola
btw I am 16 over here :v and I want to study engeneering, escencially related to planes.
so basically magic
nice debate going on here
Life is plastic to the enviroment is a way of putting it. As for how the fermi paradox goes i doubt that it holds any water, but i might be seriously wrong here, let me explain:
I do not think that any alien race would find life as developed as us to be uninteresting, i base this on some basic ideas. But before we i can list these ideas i must first state a vital part of my argument; the motives of the aliens.
By the motives i mean why the aliens would not bother, and the only ones that i can think of would be these:
1. They have already found a lot of similar beings.
2. They have already found some, or several "more developed", or rather, more intelligent beings.
3. They just see us as "bugs" that are not worthy of examination.
Now let me lay forth my counter arguments to the previous points:
1: They have already found a lot of beings with similar intelligence levels and/or similar development.
To me, this sounds as if it is leading up to a paradox.
If there were so many other races of similar intelligence, i assume they would too have developed technology for radio waves or other long-distance communication methods. If there trule were so many civilizations the odds are that we would've found one.
A counter to this statement might be:
"The universe is very large, so even though there may be many other civilazations of similar development, but very far apart, so we might not have come in contact with them YET."
I have a way to attack this counter argument, with an other counter argument:
If they are so far apart, then the alien race that finds us would need a lot of resources, so much so, that it wouldn't really be such a difficult task for them to just examine us, given that they already have a large supply of resources.
Alternatively, since they are so far apart it might be impossible for this, highly advanced alien race to find more than a handfull untill their empire collapses from being either too big, or being too old. It might alsa be that because it takes so much resources to travel this vast distance that if they find a civilazation such as ours they HAVE to examine it, otherwise, all of their effort would be for nothing.*"Foot Note 1".
2: They have already found some or several more developed civilazations, therefor making this one uninteresting.
In order for this statement to work, it requires there to be quite a lot more, other advanced civilazations, whos technology footsteps lies between those of the "highly advanced" race "the ones that supposedly ignore us", and ours. This makes it clear that there must be a gradient of different technologically advanced races, which races the question of why none of these havn't found us before.*"Foot Note 2".
3: They see us as "bugs".
This one i find very easy to refute.
Do we not care for ants on our planet?
There, those are my arguments, now to the foot notes:
*1: There is of course a possibillity that they have exhausted all of their resources during their long travel, thus having no more to use to examine us and simply returning home.
*2: These civilizations would still be interested in us, since they would not be too advanced so as to meet the other criterias for motives for not visiting us.
Of course there are some arguments for the fermi paradox which i find hard to refute, those are the following:
1: They want to be an "eye in the sky" and not involve.
This i find to be pseudo unfalsafiable, so it will be very hard for me to refute.
2: They may have found so incredibly many other civilazations that they actually just don't care, even though they do have the resources.
3: They might have examined us and determined that we basically suck at life, and left us to our own devices.
I find this highly unlikely, because that would mean that there are either a relatively high concentration of intelligent life in the universe, if that is the case, see refutations for motives 1 and 2. It may also mean that this highly developed race are INCREDIBLY powerfull, so they can travel very far in order to find these other civilazations, in which there is a high probability that we would have seen traces of them.
In the end, i find it highly implausible that the fermi paradox is accurate, please respond to this mat, i may very well change my mind.
I do not think that any alien race would find life as developed as us to be uninteresting, i base this on some basic ideas. But before we i can list these ideas i must first state a vital part of my argument; the motives of the aliens.
By the motives i mean why the aliens would not bother, and the only ones that i can think of would be these:
1. They have already found a lot of similar beings.
2. They have already found some, or several "more developed", or rather, more intelligent beings.
3. They just see us as "bugs" that are not worthy of examination.
Now let me lay forth my counter arguments to the previous points:
1: They have already found a lot of beings with similar intelligence levels and/or similar development.
To me, this sounds as if it is leading up to a paradox.
If there were so many other races of similar intelligence, i assume they would too have developed technology for radio waves or other long-distance communication methods. If there trule were so many civilizations the odds are that we would've found one.
A counter to this statement might be:
"The universe is very large, so even though there may be many other civilazations of similar development, but very far apart, so we might not have come in contact with them YET."
I have a way to attack this counter argument, with an other counter argument:
If they are so far apart, then the alien race that finds us would need a lot of resources, so much so, that it wouldn't really be such a difficult task for them to just examine us, given that they already have a large supply of resources.
Alternatively, since they are so far apart it might be impossible for this, highly advanced alien race to find more than a handfull untill their empire collapses from being either too big, or being too old. It might alsa be that because it takes so much resources to travel this vast distance that if they find a civilazation such as ours they HAVE to examine it, otherwise, all of their effort would be for nothing.*"Foot Note 1".
2: They have already found some or several more developed civilazations, therefor making this one uninteresting.
In order for this statement to work, it requires there to be quite a lot more, other advanced civilazations, whos technology footsteps lies between those of the "highly advanced" race "the ones that supposedly ignore us", and ours. This makes it clear that there must be a gradient of different technologically advanced races, which races the question of why none of these havn't found us before.*"Foot Note 2".
3: They see us as "bugs".
This one i find very easy to refute.
Do we not care for ants on our planet?
There, those are my arguments, now to the foot notes:
*1: There is of course a possibillity that they have exhausted all of their resources during their long travel, thus having no more to use to examine us and simply returning home.
*2: These civilizations would still be interested in us, since they would not be too advanced so as to meet the other criterias for motives for not visiting us.
Of course there are some arguments for the fermi paradox which i find hard to refute, those are the following:
1: They want to be an "eye in the sky" and not involve.
This i find to be pseudo unfalsafiable, so it will be very hard for me to refute.
2: They may have found so incredibly many other civilazations that they actually just don't care, even though they do have the resources.
3: They might have examined us and determined that we basically suck at life, and left us to our own devices.
I find this highly unlikely, because that would mean that there are either a relatively high concentration of intelligent life in the universe, if that is the case, see refutations for motives 1 and 2. It may also mean that this highly developed race are INCREDIBLY powerfull, so they can travel very far in order to find these other civilazations, in which there is a high probability that we would have seen traces of them.
In the end, i find it highly implausible that the fermi paradox is accurate, please respond to this mat, i may very well change my mind.
Last edited by uppkicker; May 5, 2016 at 09:04 PM.
Originally Posted by Superseba
Posiden, Uppkicker and Oxide are the guys who want deep topics, like the best students of a school that sit close to the blackboard, answering everything to the teacher. I like this knowledge you have Poside, Upp and Oxide, not joking, keep it up m8 you can be the very best, that no one ever was.
What job do you like to get when you're grown up as an adult? (I know everyone is just 12 years old here).
Well I'm going for Alchemist or Scientist, I like talking about it or learning about it.
Bro no joke i am 20 years old and my dream job has crashed and burned a long time ago. I actually am trying to get a construction job because that and electrical jobs are the best paying jobs.... well thats the only things that are around me anyways.
Oh and dude i was not one to sit in the front of the class believe me. I was the one in the back paying attention to the people around me then looking up at the teacher tell her how she was wrong and say a bunch of theories to make her be quiet and sit down letting everyone do what they want as she sits down and thanks about her life. thats the kind of "student" i was.
@everyone: guys i love your answers for the question i had asked about life. it feels good to get everyone's opinions. most people go into the religious part of the question, just how some go to the evolutionary side of it. you guys know what i mean? it's very interesting to see how others think and feel on sensitive subjects, because that is most definitely one.
Wow upkick that is really thought out and i have no comment on that. you are right about finding other lifeforms with similar intelligence, but dang the elaboration of the whole concept is quite intriguing.
Last edited by Posiden; May 5, 2016 at 09:20 PM.
Reason: acknowledging uppkicks post
NF- "You don't like me? that makes two of us"
Originally Posted by uppkicker
Life is plastic to the enviroment is a way of putting it. As for how the fermi paradox goes i doubt that it holds any water, but i might be seriously wrong here, let me explain:
I do not think that any alien race would find life as developed as us to be uninteresting, i base this on some basic ideas. But before we i can list these ideas i must first state a vital part of my argument; the motives of the aliens.
By the motives i mean why the aliens would not bother, and the only ones that i can think of would be these:
1. They have already found a lot of similar beings.
2. They have already found some, or several "more developed", or rather, more intelligent beings.
3. They just see us as "bugs" that are not worthy of examination.
Now let me lay forth my counter arguments to the previous points:
1: They have already found a lot of beings with similar intelligence levels and/or similar development.
To me, this sounds as if it is leading up to a paradox.
If there were so many other races of similar intelligence, i assume they would too have developed technology for radio waves or other long-distance communication methods. If there trule were so many civilizations the odds are that we would've found one.
A counter to this statement might be:
"The universe is very large, so even though there may be many other civilazations of similar development, but very far apart, so we might not have come in contact with them YET."
I have a way to attack this counter argument, with an other counter argument:
If they are so far apart, then the alien race that finds us would need a lot of resources, so much so, that it wouldn't really be such a difficult task for them to just examine us, given that they already have a large supply of resources.
Alternatively, since they are so far apart it might be impossible for this, highly advanced alien race to find more than a handfull untill their empire collapses from being either too big, or being too old. It might alsa be that because it takes so much resources to travel this vast distance that if they find a civilazation such as ours they HAVE to examine it, otherwise, all of their effort would be for nothing.*"Foot Note 1".
2: They have already found some or several more developed civilazations, therefor making this one uninteresting.
In order for this statement to work, it requires there to be quite a lot more, other advanced civilazations, whos technology footsteps lies between those of the "highly advanced" race "the ones that supposedly ignore us", and ours. This makes it clear that there must be a gradient of different technologically advanced races, which races the question of why none of these havn't found us before.*"Foot Note 2".
3: They see us as "bugs".
This one i find very easy to refute.
Do we not care for ants on our planet?
We do, but not in that context. If humans were building a superhighway, and let's say there was an ant hill beside that. If ants has the power to think, they wouldn't be able to comprehend why that highway was built. Nor do we need to explain it to them, it's too advanced. Same thing with humans and the universe or its actions. We could be the ant hill.
There, those are my arguments, now to the foot notes:
*1: There is of course a possibillity that they have exhausted all of their resources during their long travel, thus having no more to use to examine us and simply returning home.
*2: These civilizations would still be interested in us, since they would not be too advanced so as to meet the other criterias for motives for not visiting us.
Of course there are some arguments for the fermi paradox which i find hard to refute, those are the following:
1: They want to be an "eye in the sky" and not involve.
This i find to be pseudo unfalsafiable, so it will be very hard for me to refute.
2: They may have found so incredibly many other civilazations that they actually just don't care, even though they do have the resources.
3: They might have examined us and determined that we basically suck at life, and left us to our own devices.
I find this highly unlikely, because that would mean that there are either a relatively high concentration of intelligent life in the universe, if that is the case, see refutations for motives 1 and 2. It may also mean that this highly developed race are INCREDIBLY powerfull, so they can travel very far in order to find these other civilazations, in which there is a high probability that we would have seen traces of them.
In the end, i find it highly implausible that the fermi paradox is accurate, please respond to this mat, i may very well change my mind.
Maybe human theoreticians have underestimated how much alien life might differ from that on Earth. Aliens may be psychologically unwilling to attempt to communicate with human beings. Perhaps human mathematics is parochial to Earth and not shared by other life,though others argue this can only apply to abstract math since the math associated with physics must be similar (in results, if not in methods). Physiology might also cause a communication barrier. Carl Sagan speculated that an alien species might have a thought process orders of magnitude slower (or faster) than humans. A message broadcast by that species might well seem like random background noise to humans, and therefore go undetected.
Maybe we are deliberately isolated so we can normally evolve.
The zoo hypothesis states that intelligent extraterrestrial life exists and does not contact life on Earth to allow for its natural evolution and development.
A related idea to the zoo hypothesis is that, beyond a certain distance, the perceived universe is a simulated reality. The planetarium hypothesis speculates that beings may have created this simulation so that the universe appears to be empty of other life. Sounds quite far fetched, but who knows?
It is also possible that a civilization advanced enough to travel between the stars could visit or observe our world while remaining undetected.
The only civilization we know, the Earth, does not explicitly transmit, except for a few small efforts. Even these efforts, and certainly any attempt to expand them, are controversial. It is not even clear we would respond to a detected signal—the official policy within the SETI community is that "[no] response to a signal or other evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence should be sent until appropriate international consultations have taken place." However, given the possible impact of any reply it may be very difficult to obtain any consensus on "Who speaks for Earth?" and "What should we say?"
And, posiden. He did not think that for himself, lmao. It's the Fermi paradox.
Last edited by Oxide; May 5, 2016 at 09:40 PM.
