I dunno what kind of lanes you go up against when you play veno, but for any reasonable support if you see a solo hero with no supports it's a guaranteed lane win. Veno is good but only when he can safely trade up. Against a support he will trade evenly and be at risk from the roamer/tri/jungler/carrrywithastun. Unless veno can force his opponent to play defensively then in a lane he can't trade well IMO.
If you, a solo laner, die trading for a kill from a dual or trilane, then you are not trading efficiently since you will have more XP (and probably gold).
Abbadon is brutal in lane and he can shield people, remember he is a tanky support, so even if you ignore him he still impacts the fight.
If you, a solo laner, die trading for a kill from a dual or trilane, then you are not trading efficiently since you will have more XP (and probably gold).
Abbadon is brutal in lane and he can shield people, remember he is a tanky support, so even if you ignore him he still impacts the fight.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Not much you can do early game against a full stack of Venomancer wards if you get to set them up at just the right spot. They're even worse than Rhasta's ulti early on because they use Venomancer's passive, so imagine that at lvl 5 solo offlane vs 2 ppl at around lvl 3. And you will have better items in general since you get significant more farm than they do, so you'll always be at an advantage.
It's not a fair trade, sure, but I mean that you as the one who dies, doesn't lose much on average.
It's not a fair trade, sure, but I mean that you as the one who dies, doesn't lose much on average.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Whenever I played Veno solo offlane with max wards I would end up with massive farm, underwhelemed dual lane and if I got ganked by a third hero, I would take one with me as well. But against consistent ganks etc, Veno would be at a disadvantage.
that relies on you getting to level 5 without dying.
same as immortalpig, dunno what lanes you go up against, but if i go veno offlane, i am dead twice befor i can get to lvl 5.
and even after that, if they engage on you while you dont have 3 or 4 wards up on top of you, you're pretty much guaranteed to die.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Well, not really. The venom is dot over a long period of time. An enemy team of heavy nukes and fast phys dmg wouldn't even feel the poison until after they already killed everybody in your team. That's the problem with dot and having slow instead of pure disables. Or at least that's what I think.
if they insta kill everyone on your team, remember, there are 4 other people on a team.
if your teams not completely hopeless, the dot damage and slow is pretty scary.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
WR for hero in pubs isn't a big concern imo.
WR is actually quite difficult to zone out in the laning stage.
last couple of games ive played against one, i havent been able to stop her really
Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
Disruptor great hero, we like to run him in trilane to punish people who try to last hit or who come to our side of the river.
in a trilane yeah, gets pushed around big time in a dual lane though.
the lightning doesnt do very much, especially at level 1.
and its not like he has the mana pool to spam it properly, as a lane support, i find him very iffy, and his right clicks are just laughable, played a game against a timbersaw and he just laughed at me.
great when it comes to team fights though.
Last edited by BenDover; Jan 26, 2014 at 10:55 PM.
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Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Not much you can do early game against a full stack of Venomancer wards if you get to set them up at just the right spot. They're even worse than Rhasta's ulti early on because they use Venomancer's passive, so imagine that at lvl 5 solo offlane vs 2 ppl at around lvl 3. And you will have better items in general since you get significant more farm than they do, so you'll always be at an advantage.
At level 1 we would just kill him over and over again, or worst case push him out of lane.
There's no way he would get to the stage where he is level 5. If you are solo offlane with a hero who has no way to safely last-hit power (like, say, a BM or WR or BH) then you are not going to get any last hits, and every single mob will get denied. Even if we assume the support does nothing to push you out of lane, and there is 0 harass and 0 aggression and you have 0 deaths, you will end the laning phase with their carrying having all the lh, them having all the denies. This means if you are level 5, they will both be level 5 or higher (probably around level 7 level 5 for the carry and support respectively).
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
It's not a fair trade, sure, but I mean that you as the one who dies, doesn't lose much on average.
But it's not a question of what you lose, it's a question of how it affects the game. If you are ward spamming you need to be alive to spam, you lose vital xp and gold by dying, and you feed more than you gain. If you start trading down to an enemy roamer or ganker you put your entire team in a really bad situation where a low level ganker or roamer would be easy to deal with, but now it's equal or higher level.
It's not good, please don't solo offlane unless you have an escape.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
Originally Posted by BenDover
that relies on you getting to level 5 without dying.
same as immortalpig, dunno what lanes you go up against, but if i go veno offlane, i am dead twice befor i can get to lvl 5.
and even after that, if they engage on you while you dont have 3 or 4 wards up on top of you, you're pretty much guaranteed to die.
if they insta kill everyone on your team, remember, there are 4 other people on a team.
if your teams not completely hopeless, the dot damage and slow is pretty scary.
WR is actually quite difficult to zone out in the laning stage.
last couple of games ive played against one, i havent been able to stop her really
in a trilane yeah, gets pushed around big time in a dual lane though.
the lightning doesnt do very much, especially at level 1.
and its not like he has the mana pool to spam it properly, as a lane support, i find him very iffy, and his right clicks are just laughable, played a game against a timbersaw and he just laughed at me.
great when it comes to team fights though.
With Veno solo offlane I buy wards, one for stack and 1 for the forest through which they would gang up on me. If they do try to get too close ( I prefer to play as far from the creeps as possible if I see the enemy support to be too aggressive), then I don't even try to get creeps before I reach wards lvl 3. If I do get ganked, then 1 lvl in Gale ( I put it at lvl 1) is enough to slow them down enough to get away.
Eventually the lane will get pushed to their tower, and then I start to ward up a safe spot then move forward until I get the ideal position.
Hmm maybe, but something like an ES properly placed fissure would really fuck up WR on offlane.
