Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
I dk I consider him support since he fits the described role of support. Lich can offlane just as good too, and he's support.
all a lich can do is deny one creep and cast a nova every now and then.
cant really farm or impede the carries farm too much.
a solo offlane lich just makes room for the enemy supports to pull and deny creep waves.
darkseer with double ion shells just totally wrecks a melee carries farm with soul ring and double ion shells. forcing them to tank and last hit under tower. again, not a conventional support, creates room for the real supports to focus on supporting the carry, rather than having to compensate for an underfarmed offlane.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
And early on all it takes is 1 very aggressive support with sentry to completely fk up a solo offlane weaver.
i dont disagree, but if you know theres a ward, dont go into lane, weaver is a crappy offlaner.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
If you think that an OP hero can't factor that much in a game then you haven't seen those damn Earth Spirit pros....
earth spirit is ridiculous, il give you that, 5 man silences with 800 burst damage at level 5...
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Sure, WR can do that. I'd like to see WR do a better job of screwing up an entire team than Disruptor with Kinetic Field and Static Storm, as well as Glimpse. Or a warlock with a global ( just exagerating) ulti and the biggest aoe stun in the game and the most destructive summon in game, along with a 20% increased damage taken for an entire enemy team. Or wd with that annoying stun, heal and ulti.
WR can never outweigh the contribution of those heroes ever. And if you talk about offlane heroes exclusively, then Mirana is an even better offlaner with a better potential team contribution. So no matter how you go at it, WR is good, but not good enough to be a high priority pick in ranked.
i dont disagree, especially on the mirana part, but different roles, you cant really compare them, the windrunner picks up the #3/4 role, while disruptor/warlock/witchdocter take up the #4/5
all those heroes are mad team fight heroes, while windrunner is made for gangs and pick offs.
massive effect wombo combos are wasted when you run into one or two. massive cooldowns and mana costs vs small cooldowns and smaller mana costs.
mirana however, Id have to give you, her invis teamfight engagements and more efficient escape would have me prefer her aswell, but the unreliability of arrow gets annoying at times, a bad player can ruin her.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Warlock was the hero to get me out of the 3600 rating hell I got at due to incredibly bad teams, Mirana was the hero to get me out of the 3700-3800 zone and Slark seems to be the hero to get me past the 4k rating.
warlock is one of my favorite heroes, got like a 75% win rate with 50 matches on him. i just find as a regular support, he has no lane presence befor level 6.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Hell if I could play Earth Spirit I'd only play him, but I quit Dota 1 way, way before he was introduced so I never played him. And he seems too hard to learn to play while in ranked.
by the time you hit level 11, you'll pretty much have the mechanics down, just gotta figure out what farm priority he needs and make do with what you get.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Weaver is generally taken as a solo offlaner so lane equilibrium isn't maintainable on a general note.
wut?
weaver offlane is terribad, ive been stuck in the offlane with weaver often enough to know that as a backup carry, weaver is only going to finish treads and a ring of tranquility by 15 minutes.
weaver should be safe lane.
he relies too heavilly on farm to be stuck in the offlane.
a hero like bounty hunter can manage because all he needs is experience.
a weaver needs atleast one decent HP item and a mediocre damage item to be even remotely effective in a fight.
-=Art is never finished, only abandoned=-
Originally Posted by BenDover
for ranked im usually sitting with Darkseer offlane or support veno.
DS and veno amazing heroes.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Veno is fun but generally lacks sometimes due to the lack of disables. He is pretty op once you get aganim though.
Only ever played veno as roamer, he doesn't need disables for that role. If you get gale on someone it's practically a guaranteed kill, you just can't run from him. So often you get kills by just firing a gale then shooting them till they die. Even if you don't grab runes you can just gale and chase. I usually play him as 5 since he doesn't need items and the extra gold from ganking let you buy more support items.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Ds, don't see many of those. If you think about it, he's pretty great in team fights and overall, but as far as supports go, wd, disruptor or lock are more OP.
Awesome team fight potential and great utility and synergy with lots of heroes are his main benefits.
Originally Posted by Zalmoxis
Lich can offlane just as good too, and he's support.
DS can consistently get 3-5 last hits, disrupt pulls, stay safe and even push towers in offlane.
Lich can stand around, deny 1 creep a wave and die at the first sign of trouble. If I ever saw someone solo offlane a hero without any escapes I'd rape them mercilessly. Even a dual offlane has a very hard time.
About balanced teams: it depends a lot on how you play and what you run. Rat doto teams tend to get a lot of wins, and heavy ganker and heavy carry teams do really well.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
OP heroes dont matter for shit when teamies dont know what they doing
http://dotabuff.com/matches/479843328
Earth spirit that rolls to his death, blows gangs befor they even happen and punches enemy heroes away to safety all game.
warlock that doesnt help ward, ever and doesnt help buy or upgrade the courier.
legion that is perma out of position and won his first duel at 30 minutes.
meanwhile in the offlane, viper and I totally shut down their safe lane, moving the spec to 0-3 and the disruptor 0-5, giving our viper a 10-0 score in like 10 minutes after roaming and all the free farm he could want.
my warding is on the money, spotting them out while trying to smoke, perma vision on runes, vision for days around the map. even without warlocks help...
then we move into the late game, and suddenly:
the mangus lands 4 man RPs for the rest of the game.
the luna just facerolls everyone after free farm and ez kills on our safe lane.
and even the spec who had the worst early game of his life, somehow manages to get heart and radiance.
at the suggestion of "do you want to swap lanes?" we get the standard "no, im safe lane"
I. Mad.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/479843328
Earth spirit that rolls to his death, blows gangs befor they even happen and punches enemy heroes away to safety all game.
warlock that doesnt help ward, ever and doesnt help buy or upgrade the courier.
legion that is perma out of position and won his first duel at 30 minutes.
meanwhile in the offlane, viper and I totally shut down their safe lane, moving the spec to 0-3 and the disruptor 0-5, giving our viper a 10-0 score in like 10 minutes after roaming and all the free farm he could want.
my warding is on the money, spotting them out while trying to smoke, perma vision on runes, vision for days around the map. even without warlocks help...
then we move into the late game, and suddenly:
the mangus lands 4 man RPs for the rest of the game.
the luna just facerolls everyone after free farm and ez kills on our safe lane.
and even the spec who had the worst early game of his life, somehow manages to get heart and radiance.
at the suggestion of "do you want to swap lanes?" we get the standard "no, im safe lane"
I. Mad.
Last edited by BenDover; Jan 22, 2014 at 08:39 PM.
-=Art is never finished, only abandoned=-
I hear a lot of tactics that I don't know about..
Usually I'm the better player in the pubs I play with my team letting me down if they don't listen to me when it's going bad.
That said, I've only really played 2-1-2.
I really like to know some more advanced tactics as I think I'm ready for it.
Or do you advise not to play more advanced tactics in pubs as most people just pick carriers and totally neglect support.. Mostly happens, not always.
I feel a bit bad being let down by my team so much, it's not really fun anymore.
I'd like to move on, please help.
Usually I'm the better player in the pubs I play with my team letting me down if they don't listen to me when it's going bad.
That said, I've only really played 2-1-2.
I really like to know some more advanced tactics as I think I'm ready for it.
Or do you advise not to play more advanced tactics in pubs as most people just pick carriers and totally neglect support.. Mostly happens, not always.
I feel a bit bad being let down by my team so much, it's not really fun anymore.
I'd like to move on, please help.
Fr3styL . Improving by Improvising
I'm an artist.
I'm an artist.
Originally Posted by AlphasoniK
I hear a lot of tactics that I don't know about..
Usually I'm the better player in the pubs I play with my team letting me down if they don't listen to me when it's going bad.
That said, I've only really played 2-1-2.
I really like to know some more advanced tactics as I think I'm ready for it.
Or do you advise not to play more advanced tactics in pubs as most people just pick carriers and totally neglect support.. Mostly happens, not always.
I feel a bit bad being let down by my team so much, it's not really fun anymore.
I'd like to move on, please help.
You could start playing support :P
Some things we like to run is 1-1-2 with 1 in jungle or 1 roamer. For roamer I like veno or vengeful, but some people say CM is good too.
I think roamer is really rewarding since you enable a lot of early game kills and you still have plenty of time to ward or stack or counterward in between ganks, so you can play as a roaming 5 - and with the extra gold you can actually buy items too.
In pubs I'd play anything that's a support and encourages aggressive play. Pubs seem to just want to sit around and farm with 5 carries.
Another fun thing is 3-1-1 with the 3 being an aggressive trilane on your offlane. If you take heroes with a lot of easy harass (veno, viper, drow, etc) or stuns (cm, venge, naga, lina, lion, shadow shaman, etc) you can totally dominate. You can interupt pulls and farm their jungle as well as push the tower fast. For your wards I like to ward 1 behind their tower and the other one in the jungle so we know exactly what's going on. You can also tp out to other lanes (since you will have lane dominance they will be too worried about not dying to notice) and get some ganks there.
<Faint> the rules have been stated quite clearly 3 times now from high staff
