Originally Posted by Nyann
Problem with Midas first on heroes like OD (Which really needs to have intellegence - and fast or else he doesn't do much outside his lane. Is, if he gets ganked, while holding midas. You are at a disadvantage, he's already a terrible mid when it comes to getting ganked.
So, it's better to get your Mek fast on OD and then onto a scythe for shutting down the enemy carries.
Sure you guys had a Dark Seer that time to build the mek, but you were against Kotl / Batrider, both have high magic damage that can make it hard to seige an enemy base. In this situation OD should of built a mek instead of Midas and then Dark Seer could of made a pipe for pushing into the kotl blast.
Then again if you /can/ avoid ganks using positioning and probably wards, and you /can/ gank with minimal items, you are at a huge advantage by going midas first. And if you can't gank with your midas, then you can just farm up some items fairly fast and magnify your level advantage from mid. Midas first mid will out level anyone else.
I agree the midas is an odd pickup, but he is the kind of player that can pull it off, as i mentioned, he is way better than the rest of the team.
But i disagree with you saying that he should get a mek instead.
the only reason the OD gets a mek is for the early buckler + tranquil boots so he can proc his mana regen passive.
generally, the actual mek on a hero like OD is a complete waste, because if he gets ganged, or focused in a teamfight, hes so squishy that the mek will hardly benefit the team.
he was also in a ganging/solo pickoff role, so the mek again, only helps himself, while the darkseer tanky teamfight machine, can make use of the mek, much more effectively.
the benefits of getting a 4-6 minute midas to accelerate the early farm, while running the hero with that kind of role, far outweighs his getting a mek.
he had the batrider mid, where OD is obviously going to stomp, the furion tried to gang him once or twice, but he survived to to good positioning, as gorman said.
I feel the need to run these "pro strats" on typical heroes is severely overrated.
its more player dependant, rather than situation dependant. if you have a hyper aggressive player, who needs the early items, then a midas is the better pickup. especially with another, more efficient option to carry the mek.
On a side note, the same player ran a PL with a bottle mid the other day, no idea why it isnt done more often, it works brilliantly.
a PL with decent rune control and a bottle, is like having a kotl in your pocket.
he stomped.
turns a typically late game hero, into an effective early - mid game hero, with maximum late game presence.
But i disagree with you saying that he should get a mek instead.
the only reason the OD gets a mek is for the early buckler + tranquil boots so he can proc his mana regen passive.
generally, the actual mek on a hero like OD is a complete waste, because if he gets ganged, or focused in a teamfight, hes so squishy that the mek will hardly benefit the team.
he was also in a ganging/solo pickoff role, so the mek again, only helps himself, while the darkseer tanky teamfight machine, can make use of the mek, much more effectively.
the benefits of getting a 4-6 minute midas to accelerate the early farm, while running the hero with that kind of role, far outweighs his getting a mek.
he had the batrider mid, where OD is obviously going to stomp, the furion tried to gang him once or twice, but he survived to to good positioning, as gorman said.
I feel the need to run these "pro strats" on typical heroes is severely overrated.
its more player dependant, rather than situation dependant. if you have a hyper aggressive player, who needs the early items, then a midas is the better pickup. especially with another, more efficient option to carry the mek.
On a side note, the same player ran a PL with a bottle mid the other day, no idea why it isnt done more often, it works brilliantly.
a PL with decent rune control and a bottle, is like having a kotl in your pocket.
he stomped.
turns a typically late game hero, into an effective early - mid game hero, with maximum late game presence.
Last edited by BenDover; Aug 24, 2013 at 02:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by BenDover
I agree the midas is an odd pickup, but he is the kind of player that can pull it off, as i mentioned, he is way better than the rest of the team.
But i disagree with you saying that he should get a mek instead.
the only reason the OD gets a mek is for the early buckler + tranquil boots so he can proc his mana regen passive.
generally, the actual mek on a hero like OD is a complete waste, because if he gets ganged, or focused in a teamfight, hes so squishy that the mek will hardly benefit the team.
Just because he can pick up a midas vs bad players does not make Midas a good pick up on him.
I could go midas pudge every game vs bad players and not get ganked and could argue it's a good item - Get's me those needed levels faster and since I'm not attacking creep much, the extra 190gold on cooldown will help me keep up with gold.
However there is a reason that pros don't get midas on mids often(There will be some exceptions)
Now, onto Mek OD. Are you telling me that mek on OD is a complete waste, because if I read that right, you really need to rethink the game. Just because you are mid, does not mean - "I will not support my team in the smallest amount" - If you are playing competitive(You looked like you were doing inhouse scrims). Then your tri-lane supports will take too long to get mek that it won't be useful.
Where as mid's that can get mek - do get it. The two most common mids that get mek in the current meta are OD and Alch.
The early mek allows for early pushing which equals map control as they have no towers. If they have no map control your team gets to farm your jungle, lanes and their jungle, thus increasing your overall farm by a massive amount. Not to mention free roshan with mek if the enemy team does not have it.
And if your friend is playing OD as a ganker, he is doing it wrong. He sits in his lane, farms and makes sure the enemy mid doesn't farm, forcing them to go out and attempt to gank - with wards and players playing correctly, he wont get any ganks and has to go back to mid, where OD is already higher level due to having most of denies in the lane due to his high damage.
You also mentioned. " if you have a hyper aggressive player, who needs the early items, then a midas is the better pickup" - Midas is not an agressive item. You need to use it 10 times to get the gold from it. It's a farming item. You don't build Midas on say, anti-mage because you want to go fight the enemy team with it. You build it to skyrocket your farm faster.
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Originally Posted by ImmortalPig
Then again if you /can/ avoid ganks using positioning and probably wards, and you /can/ gank with minimal items, you are at a huge advantage by going midas first. And if you can't gank with your midas, then you can just farm up some items fairly fast and magnify your level advantage from mid. Midas first mid will out level anyone else.
While that's true. If the enemy sees you have midas, their supports /should/ be ganking and putting pressure on you to make sure that you are not getting a lot out of it.
Not hard to gank OD if you use smoke. Those wards will be useless.
Last edited by Nyann; Aug 24, 2013 at 04:17 PM.
Reason: <24 hour edit/bump
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Originally Posted by Nyann
Now, onto Mek OD. Are you telling me that mek on OD is a complete waste, because if I read that right, you really need to rethink the game.
No, i didnt, i said that it was a waste with the role we had him playing and the rest of the heroes we picked. both the darkseer and enigma could get a mek, allowing our mid to get other items.
it wasnt a scrim, it was a public game, we didnt know the enigma or the darkseer or the guys we were playing against.
I dont know why youre turning this into such an argument.
Our OD got a midas becaus he likes it and it works for him, regardless of the level of players he is against.
every player has their own preferences, and his preference is to give himself some more farm priority in his ganging role.
midas may not have been the best pickup for him, but it was also not a bad one.
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Gameinformer reviewed "Dota 2". All through the article they don't correct capitalise it even once. They also call it a MOBA.
Then he says LoL is better but says they are identical except LoL has a better community.
Why do I read this...
Then he says LoL is better but says they are identical except LoL has a better community.
Why do I read this...
