They are fast but you can see it telegraphed and when you get hit you're not as fucked up, I fought many of them and still am with the DlCs they are fun fight but there isnt much of a penalty of getting hit other than PSN while Manslayer will destroy your poise even if your a Havel Cleric, I just have a Quality build and I personally use the Havel shield as a primary weapon a rare sight an the quartz longsword because it's fast as fuck and long with a good attack so BS bullshitters can't do that shit
Edit it's not about who hits first it's all about timing as shown through Pro Ultra Sword Fat Roller Players, I still get Rekd even though in theory I do have the upper hand with a poise wrecking sword and skull crushing shield as well as a Avelon Longbow which they recently fixed the aiming because it was OP at any range even point blank.
Last edited by T0ribush; Oct 17, 2014 at 03:04 AM.