Toribash
Gameplay is everything to a game. It's what distinguishes the medium from everything else. Text with no choice is just a book, visuals without interaction is just a movie.

To be perfectly frank, the increased hardware capabilities have shifted the focus of games in a horrible way. I'm all for pretty visuals and good physics and particle effects and all the other bells and whistles that advanced hardware and software have brought us, but it has come at the expense of gameplay far too often. The great advances in gameplay have not come from triple A developers anymore, as creating innovative, truly engaging, gameplay is too risky an endeavour. It's much safer to rehash gameplay and pretty the game up and resell it. The big shifts in the genres and gameplay have come from indie developers and community creations, people who have an idea and aren't beholden to profits to create it.


I lament the fact that text-only games are not prevalent anymore, as they are the greatest example of why graphics are not what make the game. An entire generation has been seduced by visuals, and are now willing to pay full price for graphic upgrades to an identical game.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
Originally Posted by Kradel View Post
Haha yeah, I was so eager to get GTA 4. Then the expansion pack came out and the almighty Gods had brought us the Buzzard! Now you compare GTA 4 graphics to GTA 5 and it's amazing how much they have improved. Same goes for Halo. If you have seen Halo 5 graphics they are so amazing! The graphics have improved greatly but it still looks like Halo, if you know what I mean.

There's a reason halo is dead, and why there was 4x the people playing halo 2 when it was new.
Halo 2 is an ugly ass game(now), but it was preferred (halo 2 visual remake) over halo 4 or reach because it's gameplay elements that made halo a good game wasn't fucked by armor abilities and bad maps.
Halo 2 even had problems with the game that made it play better, like BXR, tripleshotting, etc
I doubt they'll get rid of the awful things they put into h4. h5 can be pretty but not fun if you play competitively in gamebattles and tournaments like me
Originally Posted by Kaneki333 View Post
I'm Brazilian, i'm alredy fucked every day i wake up

Gameplay and graphics are inseperably connected. The graphics are part of the whole gameplay experience. I think that there's some kind of spectrum between games that focus mostly on gameplay, and games that focus on graphics

[Focuses more on gameplay]
Roguelikes
Most puzzlers (puzzlers are usually shit when too much time was spent on graphics)
voxel-based games
Toribash
- Middle ground
strategy games
MOBA's
shooters
adventure games, RPG's
stuff like sim city, rollercoaster tycoon, ...
[Graphics become more and more important, although gameplay still plays a great role. What you see is what's important about the game, not story, concept or your own imagination.]

The question you should ask is "would people still play this if the graphics consisted only of basic shapes (dots, squares, ...), numbers and letters?" In puzzle games, the answer is usually yes: you only need to get the point across. MOBA's, shooters, adventure games, ... not so much: the eyecandy, special effects, "plays", ... are part of what's fun about them.
f=m*a syens
I just wrote a paragraph of pretty much the exact same thing. Goddammit arglax.
You can't seperate gameplay from graphics, because the gameplay depends on the graphics, even as much as graphics depend on good gameplay.
You'll see that most successful games recently did well because they were balanced, gameplay and graphics-wise.
Borderlands is probably the best example I can think of because it has an iconic art style which is both memorable and pleasing to look at, while also having some amazing gameplay mechanics in terms of physics(sort of) and overall how simple it is to play. The way the game was played was almost built around how comical the graphics were.
Battlefield 4 did terrible because despite the fact that it looked pretty and you could blow up buildings, the game was riddled with bugs that took forever to fix. Pretty much most games that do bad nowadays aren't balanced, since they focus entirely on gameplay or graphics. I've played some amazing games that look absolutely terrible, or some really shitty games that have some amazing mechanics.
I know you're probably just going to shit on me for saying this, but this is the reason every Call of Duty game before Ghosts did well. Ghosts has some of the worst gameplay ever, the game is actually good, but they messed it up considering how they nerfed things that the majority of the community did, like sniping and promoted the game towards a select group of elitist sweaty gamers. Despite what you say, most COD games, actually pretty much everything after COD4 were amazingly successful. At the time they were released the graphics were really nice, maps well-designed, e.t.c. The games were balanced, the gameplay and overall engine mechanics were good which made most games like mw3, bo2, cod4, mw2, bo1 extremely balanced and enjoyable. AW appears to be going really well and balanced too, which just proves that Infinity Ward messed up and gave COD a negative rep.
In general, successful games have a balance between being pretty and being able to play. Obviously you have to take into account when they were released because earlier games had access to less advanced technology so they'll obviously be simpler both gameplay and graphics-wise.

Shouldn't even ask if you would play if the graphics were basic Arglax, but rather, what exactly is an even balance between graphics and gameplay?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
|Replay|ORMO|
See, just gonna throw this out there, but CoD is a pretty bad example of gameplay and graphics merging, and I'll explain this pretty quickly in a couple paragraphs. There will be no tl;dr, but if you're interested, read it.

Starting with gameplay, their core gameplay has remained relatively unchanged since CoD4, which is ok since it's found a good framework for gameplay, which has worked. However, the balance for gameplay has actually deteriorated heavily for the sake of "easy of access" and visual appeal. Kill streaks are the main example of this. Gameplay-wise, they aren't a bad idea. Rewarding good play is inherently a good thing. However, when you get killstreaks which aid in getting more killstreaks, you create a snowball effect, a game feature which is invigorating for the person getting the kill streak, not so much for everyone else. And I'm not saying this as a scrub who gets rekt in every game he plays. I'm saying this as the guy who would eviscerate the enemy and leave my team nothing to kill. It becomes too rewarding for the player who is already ahead, letting them get further ahead and ruining the experience for everyone else.

Secondly, in an attempt to counter-balance this from happening, they increased the efficacy of newb-friendly weapons, like explosives and shotguns, to try to give players on the receiving end a fighting chance. However, it's a double edged sword. The very weapons designed to make it easier for newer players to fight on par with veterans were incredibly oppressive to fight against if a veteran decided to use them. Instead of being great equalizers, they further exasperated the problem.

Lastly on the gameplay front, they have definitively shrunk the battlefield and changed spawning patterns to facilitate a skirmish style of gameplay, rather than a battle line style, which was last used in CoD4 and BO1. What this means is that, instead of spawning you roughly within the safety of your team's location, it will try to spawn you somewhere in between your team and your enemies. Which is, again, a gameplay style which benefits veterans more than newer players. The strength of a battleline style of play is that you never have to feel pressured into finding your bearings when you spawn, as you have reasonable expectations to be safe because you're surrounded by your team, and they have a definitive line drawn that they're holding against the enemy. However, in a skirmish style game, you have to quickly evaluate your location on spawn and adjust where you need to go instantly. A veteran will quickly get their bearings and get going like nothing happened. A newer player doesn't have the time they need to get their bearings. The battle will literally be brought to them in a couple of seconds, and there is no safe window to try to gather yourself together.


Now, going to graphics, they're still running on a modified Quake engine. What does that mean? Basically, they're using the same engine that they've used since CoD2 that's been modified for different features, like sprinting and killstreaks. What's wrong with this? It limits their graphics capabilities to the limits of the Quake engine, and a dated version at that. The majority of time developing is spent cheating the engine and hardware requirements to make newer looking graphics. In addition, CoD has some of the most blatant reused assets in the game. If you walk around in MW3, you will see models and textures being using from MW1. Heck, Ghosts used an entire animation set from the MW2 ending scene for their opening scene frame for frame. It saves a lot of money, but it looks like ass if you know it's there.



CoD is far from a shining example of a good merger between gameplay and graphics. It's a relatively stale franchise that's approaching EA Sports level of recycling.
nyan :3
Youtube Channel i sometimes post videos of other games
Originally Posted by Oracle View Post

Big paragraph


Well yeah, the modern warfare series is mostly recycled, and ghosts is complete shit, but I was mostly referencing towards BO2. The game is fairly balanced, there are things that get annoying but nothing truly game-breaking.
Infinity Ward games are messed up and recycled, but the Treyarch games are generally balanced and with new content.

My opinion is biased, being a COD sniper I can't say I'm not, but I recognize that a lot of the games are quite broken, but in their prime they were balanced; except Ghosts, you really should ignore Ghosts because pretty much everything in that game is broken and garbage; what I'm trying to get across is that some of them had a balance between gameplay and graphics when they were released.
They do cheat the engine and whatnot, but we're not talking about how they achieve the results, but what the actual results are. If you focused on how they made the game rather then how the game actually plays, then you won't get anywhere. It's the surface of the game that matters, not the inside.
Maybe the code is shit, and the community is shit, but the actual games are quite good. Most peoples opinions of the game are ruined because they get tubed all the time or they get quickscoped, which most people regard as cheating while it actually takes far more skill then using a reg gun. Aka, the community gives the game a bad rep, you can't judge the actual game from it.

Just to clear something up, mw2 was the last game that allowed you to get more streaks with kills/points from your streaks. Helicopters and whatnot in mw3 don't count towards your killstreaks, only pred missiles still do. In BO2, streaks give you marginal amounts of points towards your next streak (+50, which is nothing) which render them next to useless unless you manage to get dozens of kills with it, which is unlikely. Ghosts just sucks.

There are obviously far better examples of graphics/gameplay balances, but I just gave cod as one, because it was pretty much the first one that popped into my head
Last edited by Dscigs; Aug 12, 2014 at 03:15 AM.
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|Replay|ORMO|
I'd say gameplay over graphics in a competitive game and both graphics and gameplay in singleplayer games or casual co-op games
I like the best of both worlds but as long as the gameplay itself is enjoyable and not just straight up broken but the graphics are wonky it'll turn me off big time. Only hard part is when you encounter those few extreme pc gamers that vastly prefer a pretty game over an enjoyable one.